Swine flu and the free market

[jfla]

I just heard that certain Wall Street-based companies have managed to get a hold of the swine flu vaccine that is extremely rare.

So can any laizzes-faire profit-at-all-cost libertarian here explain how and why the free market hasn’t been able to produce enough of the vaccine to (safely) supply demand?

Can any laizzes-faire profit-at-all-cost libertarian here give any reasons to justify letting the vaccine go to the highest bidder instead of the people that need it the most?

BTW: I have never had the flu of any kind so I may have a natural immunity to it. But for a little over a year now I have been in congestive heart failure due to a leaky aortic valve that allows blood to flow backwards into my heart and lungs. Any respiratory illness puts my health at risk. But, should my cardiologist tell me that I need a swine flu vaccination, I could be hard-pressed to find one.

[trforester]

It's called the "Christmas Toy Effect."

Restrict the supply, people will clamor for it, even though it has never been proven effective by a double-blind clinical study. By the way, no vaccine has been proven effective by such a study including the requisite control group. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will post such a study, but I have yet to find one.

Like I said before, check the insert before having the vaccine, especially section 13, for the lack of carcinogenicity and reproductive safety, and of the presence of this:

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Thimerosal-9925236

Section 3: Hazards Identification

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of eye contact (irritant). Severe over-exposure can result in death.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.
The substance may be toxic to kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human organs.

[minimouse]

I personally will take the vaccine when it becomes available....a list of ''potential side effects '' doesn't bother me- hell read the side of a peanut can. A large meteorite could strike me when I head for work Monday- that's the chance we take when just living day-to-day. Both of my grandchildren had swine flu- VERY nasty sickness, someone weak or with an underlying condition would NOT be in a good position. Just posting MY 2 cents- no debate please....

[jjk308]

Originally Posted by trforester

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Thimerosal-9925236

All Thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 1999.

[trforester]

Originally Posted by jjk308

All Thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 1999.

From the FDA inserts themselves:

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm


CSL:

------------------------DOSAGE FORMS AND STRENGTHS---------------------
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
•
0.5 mL preservative-free, single-dose, pre-filled syringe. (3, 11)
• 5 mL multi-dose vial containing ten doses. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury. (3, 11)

Novartis:

DOSAGE FORMS AND STRENGTHS
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
•
Prefilled single dose syringe, 0.5-mL. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative used during manufacture, is removed by subsequent purification steps to a trace amount (≤ 1 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose) (3, 11)
•
Multidose vial, 5-mL. Contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative (25 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose). Thimerosal is added as preservative. (3,11)

sanofi pasteur:

---------------------DOSAGE FORMS AND STRENGTHS---------
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in four presentations:
�� Prefilled syringe, 0.25 mL, no preservative; distinguished by a pink syringe plunger rod (3)
�� Prefilled syringe, 0.5 mL, no preservative (3)
�� Single-dose vial, 0.5 mL, no preservative (3)
�� Multi-dose vial, 5 mL, contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative, added as a preservative. Each 0.5 mL dose contains 25 mcg mercury. (3, 11 )

So, I guess if you stick to the single-dose syringe, you don't get all that much thimerosal. Check out the rest of the ingredients, oh yeah, they don't list them on the influenza inserts like they do for the rest, like Yellow Fever, Japanese Encephalitic Virus, etc.


Check out Section 13 on any of the inserts....

[jjk308]

From the CDC - Thimerosal has been removed from all vaccines for children except multi-dose vials where the risk of fungus infections is greatest. Aside from a few mass public health type injections only the single dose vials are now used for children.

And besides that the stuff is perfectly safe. Stop listening to jerks like Robert f Kennedy Jr. and check the epidemological studies - zero change before and after thimerosal.


http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccinati...merosal_qa.htm

General Questions and Answers on Thimerosal
September 14, 2009, 11:00 PM ET

What is thimerosal?
Thimerosal is a mercury-based preservative that has been used for decades in the United States in multi-dose vials (vials containing more than one dose) of some vaccines to prevent the growth of microorganisms, such as bacteria and fungi, which may contaminate them.

What are preservatives and why are they used in vaccines?
In vaccines, preservatives are used to prevent the growth of bacteria and fungi in the event that they get into the vaccine. This may occur when a syringe needle enters a vial as a vaccine is being prepared for administration. Contamination by germs in a vaccine could cause serious illness or death. In some vaccines, preservatives are added during the manufacturing process to prevent microbial growth.

Will the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine contain thimerosal?
The 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines that FDA is licensing (approving) will be manufactured in several formulations. Some will come in multi-dose vials and will contain thimerosal as a preservative. Multi-dose vials of seasonal influenza vaccine also contain thimerosal to prevent potential contamination after the vial is opened.

Some vaccine manufacturers will be producing 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine in single-dose units, which will not require the use of thimerosal as a preservative. In addition, the live-attenuated version of the vaccine, which is administered intranasally (through the nose), is produced in single-units and will not contain thimerosal.

I have concerns about the use of thimerosal. Is thimerosal still being used?
People have a right to expect the vaccines they receive are safe and effective. CDC and FDA also hold vaccines to the highest standards of safety. That is why CDC and FDA continually evaluate new scientific information about the safety of vaccines. Since 2001, no new vaccine licensed by FDA for use in children has contained thimerosal as a preservative, and all vaccines routinely recommended by CDC for children under six years of age have been thimerosal-free, or contain only trace amounts, except for multi-dose formulations of influenza vaccine. This was done as a precautionary step and not because there was evidence confirming that thimerosal-containing vaccines were causing health problems. The most recent and rigorous scientific research does not support the hypothesis that thimerosal-containing vaccines are harmful.

Thimerosal is an important preservative that protects vaccines against potential microbial contamination, which may occur in opened multi-dose vials of vaccine. Such contamination could cause serious illness or death. Since seasonal influenza vaccine is produced in large quantities for annual immunization campaigns, some of the vaccine is produced in multi-dose vials, and contains thimerosal to safeguard against possible contamination of the vial once it is opened.

Three leading federal agencies (CDC, FDA, and NIH) have reviewed the published research on thimerosal and found it to be a safe product to use in vaccines. Three independent organizations [The National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine, Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)] reviewed the published research and also found thimerosal to be a safe product to use in vaccines. The scientific community supports the use of thimerosal in influenza vaccines.

Is thimerosal safe when used as a preservative in vaccines?
CDC places a high priority on vaccine safety, surveillance, and research. CDC is aware that the presence of the preservative thimerosal in vaccines and suggestions of a relationship to autism has raised concerns. These concerns make the decisions surrounding vaccinations confusing and difficult for some people, especially parents. Numerous studies have found no association between thimerosal exposure and autism. Since 2001, no new vaccine licensed by FDA for use in children has contained thimerosal as a preservative and all vaccines routinely recommended by CDC for children under six years of age have been thimerosal-free, or contain only trace amounts, except for some formulations of influenza vaccine. Unfortunately, we have not seen reductions in the numbers of children identified with autism indicating that the cause of autism is not related to a single exposure such as thimerosal.

The federal government is committed to assuring the safety of vaccines. This is achieved by FDA oversight of rigorous pre-licensure trials and post-licensure monitoring by CDC and FDA. This commitment not only stems from our scientific and medical dedication, it is also personal – for most of us who work at CDC are also parents and grandparents. We too, place tremendous value on the health and safety of children.

[trforester]

....And big Pharma could never make a mistake, especially with the most trusted entity in the world, the U.S. government, right? And with WHO involvement, the odds of anything like this happening must be downright nil, eh?

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad...7/8560781.html

Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus


But we were prepared for this pandemic....

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/276194

Baxter Applies for H1N1 Vaccine Patent One-Year Prior to Outbreak

YOU get the choice to trust the folks who have gutted this country, and want to kill 90% of the world's population....

http://tcrnews2.com/Agenda21.html



I'LL trust myself, my neighbors, guns, gold & silver, and the brain I can still use to discern the propaganda and smoke & mirrors on the boob-tube from what is going on behind the curtain, Dorothy....

[Dirty Harry]

Total Destruction of Lungs in Ukraine Fatal H1N1 Cases
Recombinomics Commentary 04:22
November 9, 2009

The symptoms are observed at different stages of disease - a fever with a temperature over 38 C, cough, respiratory disorders. When cough was characterized by negligible allocation phlegm or dry unproductive cough with blotches of blood. All the patients come to hospital on average by 3-7 days of onset, were in serious condition. Period of time from onset to death averaged from 4 to 7 days. In all patients during a hospital for signs of respiratory insufficiency of various degrees, which quickly rose and manifested accelerated respiration rate, shortness of breath and effectiveness of independent breathing. X-ray studies were performed on 1-2 day hospitalization. Most patients experienced a double-headed particles of lower lung lesion, followed by a trend towards total destruction.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11...aine_1918.html

The recent explosion of H1N1 cases in Ukraine (see map) has focused attention on sequences linked to the outbreak, especially those in the lungs of patients who developed a cytokine storm. This hemorrhagic pneumonia has been described previously in other fatal swine flu infections, but that rapid increase in reported deaths in Ukraine has raised concerns that the virus is transmitting more efficiently, or is replicating at higher levels in lung tissue.

Interestingly, the swine H1N1 is a triple reassortant with flu genes from swine, humans, and birds.

[markw76]

Baxter needs a good, swift kick you-know-where. This isn't the first time they've messed up.

That said, I got my H1N1 and seasonal shots. No side effects. Still breathing. Heck, my arm didn't even get sore like it does sometimes.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by trforester

From the FDA inserts themselves:

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm


CSL:



Novartis:



sanofi pasteur:



So, I guess if you stick to the single-dose syringe, you don't get all that much thimerosal. Check out the rest of the ingredients, oh yeah, they don't list them on the influenza inserts like they do for the rest, like Yellow Fever, Japanese Encephalitic Virus, etc.


Check out Section 13 on any of the inserts....

I don't like the idea of all that mercury either, but I already have a mouth full in my teeth, and it's considered a hazardous material

[markw76]

Life is a lot easier once you wake up to the fact that, basically, you're screwed so many different ways it just doesn't pay to worry too much about it. So what if maybe my lousy dental health results in my being a teeny bit slower on the uptake. In the crowd we all live in, nobody will notice anyway.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by markw76

Life is a lot easier once you wake up to the fact that, basically, you're screwed so many different ways it just doesn't pay to worry too much about it. So what if maybe my lousy dental health results in my being a teeny bit slower on the uptake. In the crowd we all live in, nobody will notice anyway.

How very true.